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Ice-Pick Lodge forums • Russian authors
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 Post subject: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 13:57 
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I've almost finished reading Dostoevsky's Devils and it's been, like all his stuff that I've read so far, bloody amazing. However apart from him and Tolstoy, whose Anna Karenina is one of my favourite novels, I don't really know where else to look for Russian authors. Devils has a character who is apparently a parody of a writer by the name of Ivan Turgenev; what's he like? And any other recommendations? They don't necessarily have to be from that era either.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 14:56 
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Well, from the modern days, I'd recommend you try some of Arkadiy and Boris Strugatskiy books: "Roadside Picnic", "The Ugly Swans" (often parallels with Pathologic are drawn), "Hard to be God". In Russia the Strugatskiy brothers books are considered the classics of science fiction, though they're not much about fiction, but more about how people would act if something strange happened, human relations and character. Kind of like the Ray Bradbury books feel.

From the classics finish Dostoevsky - "Idiot", "Karamazov Brothers", "Crime and punishment" (naturally :) ).

Then there's Vladimir Nabokov — while best known for "Lolita", he has written quite a lot of other noteworthy books. Try "Invitation to a Beheading".
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:06 
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Well, from the modern days, I'd recommend you try some of Arkadiy and Boris Strugatskiy
NO
Vladimir Sorokin fag :lol:
I will advise to esteem Andrey Platonova (in particular, "Foundation ditch"), Michael Bulgakov, Sigizmunda Krzhizhanovsky, Andrey Belogo (in "Petersburg" it have polemica with Dostoevsky) and Vasily Rozanova. They are writers of the beginning of 20 centuries. From modern - interesting creativity at Vladimir Sorokin (but it very extreme, is in many respects similar to Edgar Berrouz), Andrey Bitova ("the Pushkin house") and Victor Pelevin.
P.s.
Excuse my translator:)
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:07 
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Well, from the modern days, I'd recommend you try some of Arkadiy and Boris Strugatskiy
NO
Vladimir Sorokin fag :lol:
I will advise to esteem Andrey Platonova (in particular, "Foundation ditch"), Michael Bulgakov, Sigizmunda Krzhizhanovsky, Andrey Belogo (in "Petersburg" it have polemica with Dostoevsky) and Vasily Rozanova. They are writers of the beginning of 20 centuries. From modern - interesting creativity at Vladimir Sorokin (but it very extreme, is in many respects similar to Edgar Berrouz), Andrey Bitova ("the Pushkin house") and Victor Pelevin.
P.s.
Excuse my translator:)
And Daniel Harms
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:20 
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I second Mihael Bulgakov, but I wouldn't even get close to Sorokin — his books are mindless and plain disgusting at times. Never seen the point of reading such literature, if not for a cheap thrill. :P
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:29 
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I second Mihael Bulgakov, but I wouldn't even get close to Sorokin — his books are mindless and plain disgusting at times. Never seen the point of reading such literature, if not for a cheap thrill. :P
Thrills at Sorokin are equivalent material Gustav Majnrika-sposob's sensuality of giving, no more. Sorokin uses them basically for destruction narrativa-it to me it seems quite defensible action. I will disagree that it is necessary to read Sorokin only because of sharp sensations - exist at it and very touching moments (as, for example, in "Ice").
For acquaintance I would advise "Novel" and "Blue fat" - these novels-very interesting researches of the Russian literature and culture in general.
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:41 
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Don't listen to L's blasphemy regarding Sorokin. V. Sorokin is a genious of wordplay who's already made it into the annals of literature. My sis even studied "Goluboe salo" aka "Blue fat" in university. And I'd really like to see a translation of some of Sorokin's texts 'cause they are too masterful even for us natives to comprehend at times.

2 The LXR

You may not enjoy the things Sorokin's talking about, however they remain human's most basic natural functions: eat, poo, fuck. What is there in you (us) beside that? That is the main problem Sorokin is trying to solve. And besides if you read Ice and Bro's way you may draw quite a thick parallel with Turgor and lympha.
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:48 
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You may not enjoy the things Sorokin's talking about, however they remain human's most basic natural functions: eat, poo, fuck. What is there in you (us) beside that? That is the main problem Sorokin is trying to solve. And besides if you read Ice and Bro's way you may draw quite a thick parallel with Turgor and lympha.
Yeah! :D
"Earth time have colors. Each subject, each live being lives in the time. In the colour."
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:51 
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2bratt_n: If you are given the ability to poop, doesn't mean that you have to cover yourself in... the result. :) It's true, that humans can't get away from their nature, and eventually have to accept it, but getting perverted joy from reading about physiological attributes and actions is quite meaningless. You'll have to deal with eating, pooping and fucking during your life, as you have no choice. But you have a choice to read something, that makes better food for the soul, than this.
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 15:58 
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2bratt_n: If you are given the ability to poop, doesn't mean that you have to cover yourself in... the result. :) It's true, that humans can't get away from their nature, and eventually have to accept it, but getting perverted joy from reading about physiological attributes and actions is quite meaningless. You'll have to deal with eating, pooping and fucking during your life, as you have no choice. But you have a choice to read something, that makes better food for the soul, than this.
Sorokin does not write the novels with рассчетом that its readers will take pleasure from naturality of some moments. It about ascertains physiology there where it is. It is sometimes terrible, sometimes - is ridiculous. But in its novels it does not become simply so if will get a grasp-you it will understand:)
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 16:02 
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have a choice
not so likely
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have no choice
more likely
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 16:22 
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My husband and me once joked about Sorokin.
Do you remember that wonderful "Dogma" film (Matt Damon and Ben Affleck starring)? There was a character named Fecaloid or shit-demon.

Here is the story. Sorokin wanted to become a good and famous writer so much, he would stop at nothing. So he decided to sell his soul to the devil. Unfortunately the devil himself was either not feeling well or just busy on that day, whatever, thus his duties were temporarily performed by Fecaloid. The demon listened to Sorokin's proposition and nodded: "OK, I will make you a talanted writer. A very talented writer. A genius of written word! And I will choose the perfect subject for you."

My opinion is such books are bad for one's health and are not worth reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 16:28 
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My opinion is such books are bad for one's health and are not worth reading.
On mine, it is the silly approach to the literature. On yours so it is not necessary to read Joyce, Henry Miller, Jukio Misimu, Jean Eugene, Edgara Berrouza, Yaroslav Gashek and other not less remarkable writers because of the subjects mentioned by them?)
P.s.Давайте уже обсуждение Сорокина в "Легкий жанр" перенесём,а?А то как-то некультурно холивары в иностранном разделе устраивать :evil:
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 16:56 
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Oh, well... *trying to remember the school programme*
From the same "era", I would advise you to read Gogol's "Dead souls" and, maybe, "Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka". By Ivan Turgenev usually read "Fathers and Sons", "A Sportsman's Sketches". Sorry, don't have enough english to describe what he is like :)
Maybe, you should try Leskov's "The Enchanted Wanderer". Couldn't read this book myself, though :oops: it has very strange language) From the begining of the XX century definitely try Kuprin's short stories, especially "The Garnet Bracelet". From the soviet era, try Zamyatin's antiutopia "We", liked this book very much. Also, dont't know about all of his short stories, but "The Dog" ("Собака" in russian; couldn't find the translation :) ) striked me quite hard.
Well, don't know if you like this books, don't know what you prefer) Never have read "Devils" myself :) Now reading his "The House of the Dead" (or "Notes from the Dead House"), so "Devils" is going to be the next book I will read)
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 18:49 
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My husband and me once joked about Sorokin.
Do you remember that wonderful "Dogma" film (Matt Damon and Ben Affleck starring)? There was a character named Fecaloid or shit-demon.

Here is the story. Sorokin wanted to become a good and famous writer so much, he would stop at nothing. So he decided to sell his soul to the devil. Unfortunately the devil himself was either not feeling well or just busy on that day, whatever, thus his duties were temporarily performed by Fecaloid. The demon listened to Sorokin's proposition and nodded: "OK, I will make you a talanted writer. A very talented writer. A genius of written word! And I will choose the perfect subject for you."

My opinion is such books are bad for one's health and are not worth reading.
This is plain stupid. It's your problem you can't understand the author, not his he can't deliver to omniblessed you. Stop harassing yourself with arrogance.
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 19:02 
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2bratt_n: "This is stupid" is not a very convincing argument, and neither are one-liners. ;)
Instead, tell me (and them) — what good does Sorokin bring into this life with his books? Why are they worth reading?

2vennie: Like I'll move this topic anywhere else! Or our English friends may actually think that Sorokin is worth reading. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 19:07 
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2bratt_n: "This is stupid" is not a very convincing argument, and neither are one-liners. ;)
Instead, tell me (and them) — what good does Sorokin bring into this life with his books? Why are they worth reading?

2vennie: Like I'll move this topic anywhere else! Or our English friends may actually think that Sorokin is worth reading. :)
Well, if all business in your arrogance then discussion should be conducted here, yes. It it is not necessary to me, I move in "ЧТИВО" ;)

UPD: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4410&p=94464#p94464
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 19:13 
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what good does Sorokin bring into this life with his books?
to hear this kind of question from those who make most unnerving games to date, pardon me.
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Why are they worth reading?
Again, it's you problem that you see only shit when you read Sorokin. Someone may see only boobs when playing Turgor as well.
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No use to cry quarter!


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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 19:29 
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to hear this kind of question from those who make most unnerving games to date, pardon me.
Now I'm surprised, that you think these games don't bring any good. I mean in Turgor the key idea is painfully obvious — to keep it simple, it's supposed to motivate people to live their life to the fullest. While Pathologic is a game about how strong willed people cope with an impossible situation. Both these games have enough info to reflect on, and to make people change for the best, and I in person know people, who managed to change their lives for the best as the result! And you're telling me... No, this won't do. :)

And we'll never get a decent conversation, if you just keep pointing at me, and saying that I don't understand a thing in his books. If I don't, and you do - then tell me. Maybe I missed something. Don't just go "You're all idiots, and I'm smart!" :)

So once again - what good does Sorokin do with his books? Why are they worth reading?
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 20:00 
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I would advise you to read Gogol's "Dead souls" and, maybe, "Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka". [...]
From the soviet era, try Zamyatin's antiutopia "We", liked this book very much. Also, dont't know about all of his short stories, but "The Dog" ("Собака" in russian; couldn't find the translation :) ) striked me quite hard.
Gogol's Dead Souls is very much worth reading. I've read a few of his short stories (I remember The Overcoat most vividly), but a friend spoke very highly of Gogol's earlier Ukranian folk stories (Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka, if I'm not mistaken, is a collection of these). I don't know why I haven't read any of those as I'm very interested in folk literature.

We is wonderful, and the little I've read of Zamyatin's short stories are quite nice too.

On a totally different note, I happened to pick up a copy of Tatyana Tolstaya The Slynx (Кысь in Russian). I admit, I haven't read the whole thing (I got distracted by Gormenghast... and then Thomas Mann... and then...), but what I remember was fun... a bit light, but fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 20:15 
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to hear this kind of question from those who make most unnerving games to date, pardon me.
Now I'm surprised, that you think these games don't bring any good. I mean in Turgor the key idea is painfully obvious — to keep it simple, it's supposed to motivate people to live their life to the fullest. While Pathologic is a game about how strong willed people cope with an impossible situation. Both these games have enough info to reflect on, and to make people change for the best, and I in person know people, who managed to change their lives for the best as the result! And you're telling me... No, this won't do. :)

And we'll never get a decent conversation, if you just keep pointing at me, and saying that I don't understand a thing in his books. If I don't, and you do - then tell me. Maybe I missed something. Don't just go "You're all idiots, and I'm smart!" :)

So once again - what good does Sorokin do with his books? Why are they worth reading?
Oh, man I don't want to explain anything to a person who points out the meaning of Pathologic and Turgor so easily and then out of some odd ratardness or a wish to make fun of others fails with Sorokins books. Google "Ice" and read it first. It's not very large, took me a day to two to read. Then we'll probably have a talk.

The slynx (what a funny form, logically it makes kynx) is fake. It starts in a post apocalipse setting all to delude the reader and after that the whole crap pivots around literature.
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No use to cry quarter!


If you do not describe your attack in a gloriously cinematic fashion, the difficulty increases one step. (c)


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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 20:34 
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Oh, man I don't want to explain anything to a person who points out the meaning of Pathologic and Turgor so easily and then out of some odd ratardness or a wish to make fun of others fails with Sorokins books. Google "Ice" and read it first. It's not very large, took me a day to two to read. Then we'll probably have a talk.

The slynx (what a funny form, logically it makes kynx) is fake. It starts in a post apocalipse setting all to delude the reader and after that the whole crap pivots around literature.
Fyodor, what the hell? :) I've read his "Blue lard" and I wouldn't read another book of his under torture. I'm starting to get the feeling you haven't read the books yourself, since you can't explain a thing!
Stop talking crap about me, and start talking deal about the damned book. )

2Angel Dust Speaking of slynx — check out Tatyana Tolstaya's "Slynx". If the translation is decent, it should be an awesome book. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 20:55 
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Fyodor, what the hell? :) I've read his "Blue lard" and I wouldn't read another book of his under torture. I'm starting to get the feeling you haven't read the books yourself, since you can't explain a thing!
We will resume trolling after you read Ice :D
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 21:01 
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Nope. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Russian authors
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2009, 21:26 
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You'll miss a looooooot about lympha if you don't. :D
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