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Ice-Pick Lodge forums • Glossary - Глоссарий - Page 2
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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2007, 15:29 
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Lukash, this forum is of course for everyone and we appreciate your help. Don't take things personal, I don't even know who you all are, I'm just saying what I mean because I mean what I say. :P Your last post didn't make much sense to me, perhaps you are too poetic for me, but I'm having trouble understanding what you mean.

Tsolaelia: The names for the main characters make sens, as perhaps you too have understood now. Isn't a "hunchback" specific for the education where you ring the bell in churches?

I agree with lxr on the adherents, it's a good word, but something like "the circle" makes it seem like your adherents have something incommon, more so than just being adherents, so I think it's confusing to call them the circle as they probably don't even know that they are connected themselves. They have no meetings, which a circle implies, and even if not literally, then in another sense.

The question concerning apiary and similar words is, does russian players know what apiary means? If just as much or little as english ones, then it should stay that way. Perhaps I'm a very ambitious player, but I checked all the words I didn't understand and I would like to change as little as possible to the original text. The districts can be called just that, districts, to clear things up, but the Clot and Slough etc should be there because they are there for a reason, I'm assuming.

Nat: Much of your suggestions are good, but mainly they are all in one category, namely the one concerning origin of names, if they should be russian to make the game's roots available (if they don't have another connotation like Vera/Faith discussed earlier). Do we have any strong opinions on this? I like to keep names russian simply because I'm tired of all names being english everywhere. I live in Sweden and we are, I've heard, one of the most Americanized countries in the world... I don't think that people will complain about the names if they stay mostly the same. But perhaps then again it doesn't matter... We should be clear on this point though, so that the translation is consistent.

Disinfectionists/arsonists... I'm not sure. I always thought that arsonist was simply criminal, but an online dictionary says it's people who "illegally set fire on properties". It could work, but it's not the proper word anway.

Alessa: Lara Ravell is perhaps good, for the reasons you mentioned. Don't agree on the abattoir again, as I like to learn new words and it contributes to the strange and mysterious setting of the world. ^^
About Immortelle I don't know, as I don't quite understand what you're meaning. What herb?

The Ripper sounds good.


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2007, 16:33 
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I suggest we prolong the discussion of the vocabulary to the 31 of August - I didn't even expect the project to be so productive, but now I believe, that we can and will make a great translation of this game. Let's do it. :)
I'll be compiling an updated revision of the glossary by Monday evening.

I've been thinking a bit about using multiple words for one term, which is inevitable, if we want to make a literal translation, and have come up to the idea, that it's best to use multiple words only for the most commonly used stuff, so thet the player will get used to all the names easily. As for the secondary roles - better K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid :-D) - use just one word. What do you think?
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Isn't a "hunchback" specific for the education where you ring the bell in churches?
OMG, I get the reference now. :-D Anyhow, I like hunchback more also - it seems to be a more commonly used term, and I don't see a striking difference between the two terms.
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I agree with lxr on the adherents, it's a good word, but something like "the circle" makes it seem like your adherents have something incommon, more so than just being adherents, so I think it's confusing to call them the circle as they probably don't even know that they are connected themselves. They have no meetings, which a circle implies, and even if not literally, then in another sense.
I like the Adherents word a lot too - it's got a very strong feeling to it. The idea of "The Circle" (a.k.a. naming them as a group) is also good, but we need another name for it, that, as Heteronymph has noted, will not imply, that the adherents know, that they are connected - only the player and the Mistresses know it anyway.

Speaking of which! There one term I have completely forgotten about - the Mistresses. It's a very hard to translate word, and its current translation isn't too good. The other variant was Hostess or Keeper, but I like it even less, since it associates with something different - in the game the Mistresses are the key women figures, that "rule" one of the three fractions - Maria, Kapella and Saburova (she's actually a fake seer, but the player will only find that out closer to the end of the game). Any ideas, what we should use here?

Here's what Lingvo says about it:
http://lingvo.yandex.ru/en?text=%D1%85% ... ranslate=1

BTW, Lingvo is quite the best tool, when it comes to Russian <--> English translations, plus its online and free. Use it, if you're not sure about something.
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The question concerning apiary and similar words is, does russian players know what apiary means?
Yeah, in Russian it's actually called The Termitary, but we didn't like how it sounds and changed the word to Apiary.
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If just as much or little as english ones, then it should stay that way. Perhaps I'm a very ambitious player, but I checked all the words I didn't understand and I would like to change as little as possible to the original text.
I'd also like an unadapted translation. There's this guy, whose texts are often used for studying English in Russia - Somerset Moam. If you compare adapted translations for intermediate learners and the originals for advanced ones, you'll see the difference immediately. Yes, the original is uncomparibly harder to comprehend, but it's even more interesting that way. )
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The districts can be called just that, districts, to clear things up, but the Clot and Slough etc should be there because they are there for a reason, I'm assuming.
Well, all districts have names too, and, as I've understood, the proposition was to call them "<name> + District". Which is allright, I suppose. Same for manor names.
Maybe, we can use the full translation on the first few days for the character, so that the player gets used to it, and then use the short form, dropping "district" or "manor" in the names.
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Disinfectionists/arsonists... I'm not sure. I always thought that arsonist was simply criminal, but an online dictionary says it's people who "illegally set fire on properties". It could work, but it's not the proper word anway.
The guys with Molotov coctails are Arsonists and the ones fith flamethrowers are disinfectionists. Maybe, something like that, since the first organisation are basically riots, and the other is a part of the army?
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Don't agree on the abattoir again, as I like to learn new words and it contributes to the strange and mysterious setting of the world. ^^
AND teh Abbatoir is a very common word. )
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About Immortelle I don't know, as I don't quite understand what you're meaning. What herb?
What herb do we smoke? )))))) I'd keep Mark Immortal as is. )
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Why, in the game Haruspex is called "The Ripper" now and then! And other people from abbatoir who kill bulls are called "butchers". Both these names have a strong negative context, so why not just leave them like that?
Well, he is called Потрошитель in Russian, you remember? That's the analog.
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Well, our Bachelor is unmarried But this nickname refers to his education, that's right... We should think of it together, but I doubt that LxR will remove this word willingly.
Only if we come up with a very good analog. )
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What would you say about "Eviscerator"?
First time I hear this word, honestly. ) Will look into it, then answer...
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Ohh, is "Bachelor" supposed to refer to his education? In that case, it definitely has to go: the word is more commonly used to refer to an unmarried man. Perhaps "Scholar", or even "Scientist".
Scientist or Scholar seem way too simple. :( Oh, and doesn't the intro, where he's called a Bachelor in Medicine (or "of Medicine"?) clear things? If not - we should definitely come up with something else.
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A title should come before a name, so "General Ash" would be correct - is there meant to be a double meaning in the name "Ash"? Could it be changed to "Ashton"? That's a more common name, and doesn't immediately bring fireplaces to mind! "Ash" is usually an abbreviation for "Ashley", which is a girl's name.
Allright.
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Last edited by The LxR on 26 Aug 2007, 10:00, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2007, 04:43 
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There is something wrong with your "prolongation" again, lxr. :wink:

Ok, hunchback it is, works for humpbacks also, KISS is good, molotov arsonists and disinfecionists... I have no problem med mistresses actually, it implies both power and mystery. ^^


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There is something wrong with your "prolongation" again, lxr. :wink:
LoL. You're right
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Ok, hunchback it is, works for humpbacks also, KISS is good, molotov arsonists and disinfecionists... I have no problem med mistresses actually, it implies both power and mystery. ^^
Hm... OK )
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PostPosted: 27 Aug 2007, 02:55 
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Nat

Awesome! I agree with almost everything you have said. I would debate just one of the 19 points:

19. Long and Short block
Corps or building maybe? ‘Cause “block” is a part of the city, and here we mean just one building, large though it is.


"Block" is a fairly abstract and general term. It might very well refer to parts of a large building. I am sure it would not cause any confusion. "Wing" is the most common term for this, but the terms "long wing" and "short wing" introduce new connotations.

Tsolaelia

Ohh, is "Bachelor" supposed to refer to his education? In that case, it definitely has to go: the word is more commonly used to refer to an unmarried man. Perhaps "Scholar", or even "Scientist".

I like "Scholar" as the least bad option suggested so far. :) The drawback to it is that it sounds a bit simplistic, but it is not a big one. "Bachelor" really does almost always refer to marital status.


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What would you say about "Eviscerator"?
That could definitely work.
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Why, in the game Haruspex is called "The Ripper" now and then!
That's another good possibility. :)
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it's best to use multiple words only for the most commonly used stuff, so thet the player will get used to all the names easily. As for the secondary roles - better K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid Very Happy) - use just one word. What do you think?
Yes, yes, and yes!
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There one term I have completely forgotten about - the Mistresses. It's a very hard to translate word, and its current translation isn't too good.
As a native English speaker, I actually think that's a pretty good word - it's the feminine form of "master", which basically means a person with power or ownership over something.
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Maybe, we can use the full translation on the first few days for the character, so that the player gets used to it, and then use the short form, dropping "district" or "manor" in the names.
That sounds good - I still think a few of the place names need slight adjustment, though. I realise that they're very stylised, but even so they need to sound more congruous and like actual locations rather than a random assortment of words. LxR, could you check my interpretation of which districts fit within which sectors and see where I've made errors?
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Scientist or Scholar seem way too simple. :( Oh, and doesn't the intro, where he's called a Bachelor in Medicine (or "of Medicine"?) clear things? If not - we should definitely come up with something else.
It really doesn't, I'm afraid - it's too ambiguous, and the word will probably amuse players because they'll be thinking of this television program! If you want something more specific, how about "The B.Sc." - those are the letters that are appended after a person's name when they've received a Bachelor of Science. On Lingvo


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What's Eviscerator?

And does doctors have a science degree? Does the Bachelor have a doctors degree at all?


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I'm running a bit low on time - I think I'll produce the prommised glossary revision tomorrow. )
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LxR, could you check my interpretation of which districts fit within which sectors and see where I've made errors?
This will be in the revision. ) all's good, as it seems to me now...

Oh, yeah, and another thing - what is the full variation of the name Stan? (It's for Stanislav Rubin)
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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2007, 21:59 
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Before I compile the last version, let's make the following thing clear:

-- Laura Ravell -- Looked up on Wiki - lara is not actually an English name, but Laura is. How is that?
-- Notkin - still need a catchy name for this guy. His surname in Russian derives from musical notes.
-- What's Eviscerator?
-- We are keeping the term Mistress
-- I'd still like to hold on to the Bachelor as Daniel's nickname.
-- Long Wing/Short Wing - new connotations are good.
-- What is the full name for Stan?
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--Laura works
--I'd say Notkin works since the words are similar
--I like bachelor too
--long wing/short wing? :P
--Stan? :P

I was thinking about some of the things lukash wrote. Cutters is a good name for... what was the last thing we settled on, razormen? Also it was slang similar to "berk" in the 19th century working class in england, don't know if that's good or bad.

Men who know lines, what are those called again in the current translation?

Seems we are almost done with the first stage, so let's get it on. ^^


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--long wing/short wing? :P
Long/Short Block of the Apiary )
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--Stan? :P
Stanislav Rubin. In Russian Stanislav is good, but will it be good in English. Oh, or did you mean, that it is already a full name? ))
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I was thinking about some of the things lukash wrote. Cutters is a good name for... what was the last thing we settled on, razormen? Also it was slang similar to "berk" in the 19th century working class in england, don't know if that's good or bad.
Cutters is good. And Lukash is banned for offtopic on the Russian forums. ))
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Men who know lines, what are those called again in the current translation?
No term, actually. They're just called men, who know the lines. Should we think of a name?
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Seems we are almost done with the first stage, so let's get it on. ^^
Yep, almost - I'm finishing up the glossary right now - we'll check it one more time, and then will get to real work. )) Shouldn't take more than 2 days, though, the glossary.
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Hierophant - one who knows the lines, found it.
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THE SECOND REVISION OF THE GLOSSARY

The 3-rd revision will be the last one, so now is the best time to flame each other about questionable terms. The changes will be submitted until August 31. Thank you very much! ))

http://pathologic.thelxr.info/glossary_2007.08.27.xls

You know, everyone, I think we'll make a great translation - we are a very strong team. Let's do it!

(Oh yeah, thanks to Halfgild Wynac for most of the descriptions - I've copy/pasted them for quickness from the reference)
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lara is not actually an English name, but Laura is. How is that?
Hey! How about Lara Croft? :D


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Actually, I didn't mean Stan, but it will be fine.

Пуговка Button
Is someone actually called button? Who is that again? Not even a pseudo-name! :wink:

Немощный Sick
Again, is that a name? Sick one if something. It just seems broken to me.

Боос Boos
Isn't Boss a more proper term? Does Boos have anything to do with bulls?

Утробный Womb One
In regular english "womb one" sounds wrong, and I've never heard anyone saying "wombed one"... Uterine is the proposed babelfish-translation, although perhaps it's too medical.

Оспина (Эспе-Инун, Cаба Успне) Ospina ( Aspae-Inun, Saba Uspne)
Pock is ok and it can sound gay because it's a woman. ;)

I would propose the following changes for now:

Бритвенники Razors/Razormen (to Cutters)


I'll think more about it tomorrow.


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By the way, because there already exists the word "boo", "Boos" would be pronounced with the "u" sound, as in "loose". "Boss" seems optimal.


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По поводу Веры (дочери Горбуна). :idea: Это по-моему, искаженная форма от "Верб" ,семьи, жившей ранее в том доме, где сейчас Анна Ангел (Самозванка , день 3 , квест "Семена Каравана"). Так что может ее и оставить "Vera", а не "Faith"

Сорри за русский, плавятся мозги (бодун ) :?
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Пуговка Button
Is someone actually called button? Who is that again? Not even a pseudo-name! :wink:
Yep. It's aname for a smallgirl, if I'm not mistaken. Something really secondary...
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Немощный Sick
Again, is that a name? Sick one if something. It just seems broken to me.
Not a name - it's the way you call the mournful looking guys, that you can give some money in exchange for reputation.
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Боос Boos
Isn't Boss a more proper term? Does Boos have anything to do with bulls?
It's a typo. Will fix.
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Утробный Womb One
In regular english "womb one" sounds wrong, and I've never heard anyone saying "wombed one"... Uterine is the proposed babelfish-translation, although perhaps it's too medical.
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Оспина (Эспе-Инун, Cаба Успне) Ospina ( Aspae-Inun, Saba Uspne)
Pock is ok and it can sound gay because it's a woman. ;)
Well, if it sounds just plain stupid - it's also wrong... Also, if we use Pock - we need to think of two different Steppe names for her (in the brackets), a.k.a. her true names, encountered in the impostress scenario.
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Бритвенники Razors/Razormen (to Cutters)
OK
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By the way, because there already exists the word "boo", "Boos" would be pronounced with the "u" sound, as in "loose". "Boss" seems optimal.
I know, it's a typo.
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По поводу Веры (дочери Горбуна). :idea: Это по-моему, искаженная форма от "Верб" ,семьи, жившей ранее в том доме, где сейчас Анна Ангел (Самозванка , день 3 , квест "Семена Каравана"). Так что может ее и оставить "Vera", а не "Faith"

Сорри за русский, плавятся мозги (бодун ) :?
No problem. Do you remember, where it is said about Vera? I don't.
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Ok, then I propose "Sick ones", and "Pockmark". The other names I'll let someone else figure out since I haven't played Impostress' scenario.


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Based on the "allowed translation" column of the latest glossary, these are my current thoughts. The names of characters are just suggestions to make them more accessible to an English-speaking audience, but our translation of the titles and place names are absolutely crucial.

Player Characters
Bachelor: Graduate, Bachelor of Medicine
Devotress: Deceiver, Stranger
Haruspex: Haruspex, Surgeon (nickname: Ripper, Eviscerator)

Daniel Dankovskiy: Daniel Danovsky
Artemiy Burakh: Artemis Burak
Klara: Klara

Major NPCs
Laska: Leslie
Ospina: Veruca (a verruca is a type of wart - the word "Veruca" was used as a character name by the author Rohl Dahl in one of his novels, so it's sort of an ongoing joke)
Taya Tychik: Tara Tychic
Olgimskiy: Olgimsky
Spichka: Chandler (means "candlemaker"), Brandon ("brand" can mean a burning stick)
General Ash: General Ashton

Minor NPCs
Blockie: Lockie
Boka: Annika
Harpist: Arthur ("harpist" sounds like a profession, not a name)
Jaklakh: Jackal
Kruzhka: Kruzka
Lutik: Luke

General terms
Disinfectionists: Purifiers (this is meant to be ironic), Flamers, Arsonists (not entirely convinced on this one)
Adherents: Confederates (not sure)

I'll look over the locations later when someone can explain them to me - my eyes are falling out from reading this glossary over and over. x_x


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Based on the "allowed translation" column of the latest glossary, these are my current thoughts. The names of characters are just suggestions to make them more accessible to an English-speaking audience, but our translation of the titles and place names are absolutely crucial.
Are you sure we should really adopt hte game this much? I'm speaking, mostly, about the name conversions. I always thought, that when reading or watching or playing something foreign, the fun part is getting to know some other culture, including through names. For example, anime (a.k.a. Japanesse animation) - it just isn't as fun to watch, when translated, since the voice acting can never be brought to the level of as it is in Japan. And it's quite cool to learn stuff like what postfixes for names mena, like -san, -sensei, -kun, -chan, etc...
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Bachelor: Graduate, Bachelor of Medicine
Devotress: Deceiver, Stranger
Haruspex: Haruspex, Surgeon (nickname: Ripper, Eviscerator)
As for the bachelor - let's use the scheme, I proposed earlier - call him the Bachelor of Medicine as often as possible on the first day and texts, and later just omit the "of medicine" part. Agreed. Just make sure it doesn't sound awkward, when proofreading. ;)
As for Devotress - I don't think that Deciever will do - the whole point is, that she actually is a miraclemaker, not an impostress. So, I guess, we should pick something with a positive/neutral feel to it.
For Haruspex we'll add an epigraph with the explanation of the term Haruspex. Also we better use one nickname. I like Ripper better, since it reminds me of a certain Jack ))) And it's already used a lot in the game - less stuff to fix.
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Ospina: Veruca (a verruca is a type of wart - the word "Veruca" was used as a character name by the author Rohl Dahl in one of his novels, so it's sort of an ongoing joke)
Good one, I like it. )
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General Ash: General Ashton
OK, if you insist ;)
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Harpist: Arthur ("harpist" sounds like a profession, not a name)
It is a nick based on his profession, I guess... )
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Disinfectionists: Purifiers (this is meant to be ironic), Flamers, Arsonists (not entirely convinced on this one)
Purifiers is awesome!
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Adherents: Confederates (not sure)
Neither am I. ( Let's leave it as is... Or is it just too unintelligible?
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I'll look over the locations later when someone can explain them to me - my eyes are falling out from reading this glossary over and over. x_x
Here's a map of the areas, hope it helps:

Image
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How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;

---- Alexander Pope


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2007, 15:28 
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Старый Добрый Эль
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Location: Зараженная Москва

Ребят, надо придумать нормальыне имена для мальчика и девочки в конце игры.
Мальчик - Ячмень.
Девочка - Грибочка.
И игру слов к их именам... Гробочка... Хыхык... :))
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How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;

---- Alexander Pope


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2007, 15:46 
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Are you sure we should really adopt hte game this much? I'm speaking, mostly, about the name conversions.
No, I'm not sure. :) I like the suggestions you've made upon my suggestions. I think Adherents could still work, since no-one's come up with a better suggestion, and perhaps even Devotress, too? It's a minor point, but I'd say the Blockie=Lockie translation is necessary, since "Blockie" sounds too derogatory (a "blockhead" is slang for a stupid person).

Thank you so much for the map! That's perfect. (And I'm sure I'm not the only one who was confused!)

The place names are difficult, because they seem to be very specifically chosen for reasons that I don't fully understand. That in mind, here are the alterations I'd suggest for the sake of coherency:
Leafs = "Leaffall" (not a real word, just a combination of "leaf" and "fall") or "Leaf Quarter"
Muzzle = "Snout"
Hearts = Heart
Rib = "Ribs" or "Ribcage"
Veins = "Arteries" (or is there a reason for this being almost identical to the river "Vein"?)

Do you know the meaning of "Earth" and "Knots"? What are those names supposed to represent?


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