Nope. The only reality is you, the player.)) All the rest is a fake.

You mean that guy in front of a computer monitor? Nah, it is a known easter egg.

Maybe it is. Everything is known and everybody's clever. That doesn't matter. The teenage girls in the streets mention (I'm in doubts because never played the English version, but it should be something like..) the Reflections game. This mirror thing should explain something. The miracle inside a miracle inside a miracle...

[UPD]: But actually it all comes to the player-centered point as I said. The tragic unity of the City and the Polyhedron was made to amuse the player AND to make him/her choose, because the last choice is what matters.

May everyone forgive another necromantic act on this (extremely interesting and informative) thread, but having just finished the game as the Bachelor yesterday, I feel really obliged to comment on its ending and how I understood it, and what I liked and didn't about it.

I certainly was somewhat baffled about the Authorities=Children and the characters=toys part (thought it kinda reminded me of the Chapterhouse Dune ending) and how it fits in the whole story. I'm still digesting it (and probably still will while replaying as one of the other characters), but the final Theatre visit allowed me to finish the game perfectly satisfactorily without cracking the puzzle.

Maybe (maybe not) I'm over/misinterpreting it, but to me the final conversations with the Executor and Tragedian there seemed to me like a statement and question about storytelling itself, any emotional involvement, and the value it holds to us. From the very beginning (even before picking the characters), and throughout every night at the Theatre, the game reminds us that it is, after all, just a game. And then the Children Playing Gods bit showed us that the whole story of the fight with the plague might be meaningless even within the game's universe... That's when we have to make up our own minds, whether knowing all that, does the story hold any value to us? To me it was really something beautiful - I'm a kind of person who likes invest something in the story I'm experiencing, otherwise it's not as interesting and rewarding to me. And Pathologic certainly was, because despite knowing that it's a game, and that it might be even more illusionary, I still wanted to save the town.

I feel that meeting Eve in the cathedral was something similar. Does the fact that she's there means that her soul was trapped inside to suffer (eternal?) torment for the sin of suicide? Or does her presence mean she's brought life and beauty and managed to sanctify the place through her miracle? It could be both, but it is whatever we choose to believe. (By the way, thank you Ice-Pick Lodge for putting her there, Eve was definitely my favourite character, and I was really glad that her story got some more resolution. I hope though that suicidal girls won't become a trend for future IPL games - the Nameless Sister was my favourite character as well. )

As for the four endings, I think without knowing the whole story Klara's was the most beautiful, although I'm really really disturbed by the dead(?) men before the sandbox and what Klara told inside the cathedral about going on some crusades with Blok. The endings make me really want to know more about the relationships between Klara/Blok (those two looked so... serene? together) and Artemiy/Aglaja.

I didn't particularly like the Bachelor's conclusion, because (maybe due to poor translation or maybe missing some dialogue altogether) I didn't quite get how or when he became a supporter of a mad reincarnated dark witch bitch (involved in some love hexa(hepta?)gon) that Maria Kain became ( ) and her wishes and dreams of some weird perfect society. Also, I think that for someone who wanted to defeat the disease and death itself, razing and burning the town to the ground, sowing the ground with salt, and then just relocating to the other side of the river just didn't seem much of a victory... (Also, wow, the Children destroying the sandbox town was extremely creepy... )

The final thing that bugs me (well, not final, but for now at least) is Victor Kain's talk of him channeling someone too (like (supposedly?) Georgiy channeling Simon and Maria channeling Nina), whom I don't remember exactly but I think Catherina would be even more afraid of then Simon... I wonder if this gets resolved in the other two scenarios? (Also, wow, the description of Nina by Victor on that final day was really something to me, amazing writing.)

I can't speak for his dedication(?) to Maria, but I believe the very existence of the Polyhedron represents to the Bachelor much of what he stands for. His whole stance against death is mirrored by the Kains' beliefs, and by extension, that of the Utopians. To Dankovskiy, whose primary conflict is to combat the natural Laws (of which death itself, as well as the plague, is an agent), the Polyhedron is a modern marvel, a living testament to man's victory over nature, and a technological behemoth - regardless of how spiritual its origins are. As a scientist and an intellectual, I don't think he can bring himself to destroy such a thing, even at the cost of the town that birthed it. It's the ultimate triumph of cold reason over emotionality. 8)
You met Eve in the cathedral? Was it on the last day? I, too, liked Eve, and was sad to see her go, and would have loved to have some more resolution to her part in the story. I didn't find out about the children/theatre plot twist until the Haruspicus' scenario, because the note the Authorities sent me as the Bachelor seemed unnaturally short, and cut off before inviting me to the Polyhedron (was that a mistake I wonder?). I feel I have missed something important.

Yes. She's at the top of the stairs.

Well, I think that it's the "spiritual" origins of the Polyhedron that gave me the most trouble, since it seems to have been made of equal parts incredible technology, witchcraft of the Kains, and the workings of a brain which was so burned through with twyrine it left holes you could see through... I understand how it makes sense though, and I guess I can only blame my personal dislike of the Kains and the perhaps not quite right "Give me pure Science!" attitude I somehow (probably too hastily - I now expect that the Thanatica might have been dabbling in more mystical aspects as well) adopted for Bachelor (which I hope I'm sensible enough not to repeat for the next two characters). In the end, though I'll agree the 'Hedron may stand for defeating nature, I find its workings far too incomprehensible and oblique for a "cold reason" attitude.
Yeah, I wouldn't have found out about the Polyhedron from that message either, but I was lucky to check the Theatre first and the Executor told me to go there.

Thank you, I went back and replayed the last day of the Bachelor's scenario, and sure enough, Eve was waiting for me. Shame I didn't think to look for her up there the first time around!
Yeah, I see what you mean. Still, better to let it be so that it can (maybe?) be studied and eventually understood in more concrete terms, rather than destroy it, I guess.

I’ve recently completed the Haruspicus scenario, and tried out a couple of different endings. I was only able to cure my own and the Bachelors adherents, so I was granted access to an audition with the authorities—haha marvelously neat children!--in the Polyhedron in their haven.

I liked how theatrical layers were woven into the game, playing with what was real and what constituted reality. The children in the Polyhedron having somehow created the town, the protagonists, all the inhabitants and the disease in a sandbox quasi-world/reality/extended reality for it then to become real, as such, at least the Haruspicus had transcended his alleged doll-existence somehow, which they though can’t explain! … I find it indeed rather disturbing how lost those children, and well “childlike” they are; as is further shown, in my eyes, in the ending following the Bachelors decision, to destroy the town and the inquisitor, and leave the Polyhedron safe and sound; where it’s shown that the children maliciously destroys their sandbox town in conjunction with the army laying waste to the real town, whether or not the rest of the people there were as real as the Haruspicus…
The ending sequence were you, the player, find yourself in the theater, with a lot of dolls, including a pair of each of the protagonists and the narrators tell you that you have been victorious and that the exit is upon, an exit that lead out into the universe, or just a black void with yellow dots , looking back at the theatre that floated in space …

It reminds me of Plato Cave Allegory in which a group of people since their births been chained and held immobile so that they could only look at a cave wall with different shadows moving over it; shadows created by people by means of a fire behind them. All these prisoners know of reality is the shadows on the walls; for decades this is what their life have constituted, what their existence come up to. But if one day one of the prisoners were to escape his/hers imprisonment in the cave and get outside, he would be overwhelmed to find out that there was more to reality than just the flickering of shadowy figures on the cave wall …
Human imagination is a wonderful thing for sure.

I've just finished the game for the first time, playing as the Bachelor. I have a few thoughts I'd like to share.

- scariest thing in the game EVER? The silence and emptiness of day 12 *bleak depression*. (The meeting with the creators and the final exit into the void of shiny stars didn't help either, but... man). I found it funny though that there were still some soldiers guarding here and there and especially that the stores were open. I know the stores were necessary so you don't have the character starve to death just before the ending, but it sort of ruined the perfect WTF atmosphere that could have been achieved if all life in town had been wiped.

- speaking of which... isn't it a bit, uh, hugely contradictory that we want to raze the town to cure an epidemic that doesn't seem to exist anymore in the 12th day? I really, really wonder about the meaning of this. Is it because "the point was not the plague", and all that matters is the decision you make in the end: a non-lasting Utopia/ a normal, healthy sustainable life without miracles/ whatever Klara's ending is (don't spoil it for me!). What if the children-creators actually wanted an answer to this, and this is why they played the game? And "trading places with them" means exactly this, you get to decide for them in the end. *note that I have only seen Bachelor's ending and the bad ending, seeing the others might invalidate my theory*

- please tell me Mark's nature and role will be better explained in the other scenarios. The guy's organising plays that predict the future, all while wearing that smug smile and ironic attitude. Now we all know the town isn't a stranger to prophecies, what with the Mistresses and all. But at least they were involved and distressed by what they saw, Mark on the other hand could't care less. He manages to make supernatural look scary even in a town that openly accepts supernatural. WHO is he?

- I had a hunch from day 1 that the Masks were avatars of the game developers. Looks like I was right

- While playing through the first days, I constantly had a feeling of being an actor. That might be because I read walkthroughs before starting and I knew what I had to do, so I just kept myself alive to be able to play the "part" - solving quests the right way. Considering this, it was weird that I was so distressed when I learned it's just a "toy plague". I didn't want to cure it anymore. I wanted it to go **** itself. That's a weird reaction, don't you think? As if I didn't know it was a game all along

- This is probably the most appealing-to-women game I've ever played. The intrigues in town, hidden motivations and varied personalities really work in this respect (not to mention most men in the game are handsome ). I like it how the characters seemed very realistic and believable (especially most of Klara's adherents), no matter their age, gender and social status. I also liked all the little dramas of the ragdolls on the street and the superstitous stories the children tell. And the fact that not all models ran in the same way. All these intelligent little details contribute much much more to realism than shiny graphics, imho.

- Speaking of graphics... the whole thing is blocky and lacking variety on purpose, right? It was never meant to suggest a real world, but a world created with the limited means of a theatre stage or children's toys (but which obviously is nonetheless alive). The fact that I could play the game on my ancient computer is just an added bonus

- Now, for a bit of criticism: what I loved about the beginning of the game is how realistic things felt: prices rising when population panicked, authorities lying to the population to calm them down, the way the townspeople reacted to the plague - some becoming criminals, others volunteering for patrols. In this setting, seeing something like the albino really, really gives you the chills, because there is some appearance of normality kept. However, around day 7-8, everything started to revolve around the supernatural and Kains and their tower. The worst thing is that the Bachelor got sucked into it without any resistence whatsoever. Up until then, playing him was amazing because his dialogue options actually fit what I wanted to say. He was an outsider going wtf over the weird mentalities and stories of the town, while maintaining a level of politeness to make people his allies. Around day 8 though, he was all like "omg let's save polyhedron no matter what!!1" and... I just wasn't feeling the same, at all. I wanted to slap him when he said "Aglaja is my best friend"... no. Aglaja is creepy and manipulative. The Kains are all creepy (except Khan) and Maria is the worst. I actually hated both his ending, and the way he started to act so out of character to me. Don't get me wrong: it is scientific to accept the "supernatural" exists when said supernatural slaps you in the face, as it did to him. But that's no excuse for him being such a naive judge of character.

- the translation was not nearly as bad as everyone says. Maybe it's also because I'm Romanian and my native language has some slight slavic influences, but I always knew what the game meant. Sure, it wasn't proper English, but it was understandable and charming. I'm guessing part of what passed as "bad translation" is the fact that a lot of characters have very peculiar ways of speaking, and they rarely say what they want directly. Which shouldn't be a problem if you read a bit of classic literature.

- I wanted to make tiny 3D executors out of paper. Having played day 12, I changed my mind

I'm in a similar position as you, Sprite, having only completed the Bachelor's scenario (yet!). I've seen the animations for the endings of Artemiy and Klara, but without knowing their story, they are extremely vague, especially Klara's! Hmm, I think that the Polyhedron and the Town in its current state at first glance just don't seem to be able to coexist, whether in a physical (Polyhedron causing the disease-causing residue rise up through the ground) or a metaphysical way (construct of the mind/dreams vs. harsh reality)..... unless Klara causes a miracle to happen that seems to resolve the difference (what it means exactly is still a mystery to me). I remember some obscure allusions to him being, ehm, the Adversary, but from what I gathered he is supposed to represent the seed of chaos among the Utopians' perfect society...
Well, Mark was an Utopian, so theoretically he should be most prominently featured in Dan's scenario, but we won't know until we play the other ones... I think that it was a very deliberate move from Ice-Pick Lodge, to create a strong reaction at the end. The player always knows at some level that "it's all just a game" and still wants to go through with it. How about when it turns out "it's all just a game" in the in-game universe? Will he or she still care about the final outcome? Will it make him or her enjoy the journey leading to the end any less? And I think it worked very well, and it's nice to hear about the different reactions... When I got to that point I believed that everything that happened still mattered - does that mean I was (still am!) in denial about the truth? And then you can get angry at something that at first seems like a horrid lie, but when you think about it, you realize that it's what's been presented as truth from the beginning...
Haha, because nothing works better than death and disease? Better than all that outfit-changing and house-decorating in the Sims, for example... Jokes aside, I have to concur. I, too, found the characters and relationships between them very interesting and masterfully realized. I also share your opinion about the game's men, but I have to point out that the ladies are very nice too (I think I already mentioned I have a soft spot for Eve? ).
My thoughts exactly. I also couldn't see why the Bachelor should so readily share the Kain's pretty dubious agenda of saving the Polyhedron at the expense of the Town... At least I as the player couldn't really share his motivations, having to try to excuse them in some way to myself. Was it because the Kains reached out to him upon his arrival? Or was his Thanatica background not as strictly scientific? Or was I just missing something due to poor translation?

I'm very curious about Artemiy's and Klara's scenarios, because I guess that with them any apparent realism of the game's setting goes out of the window a lot sooner, if not at the very beginning.
Yeah, I guess the worst offenders for the Bachelor's scenario was some text simply missing (like some journal entries in the middle) or some lines seeming totally inappropriate for the situation. But I suppose that native English speakers find the mutilated grammar particularly jarring.

I'm willing to buy that, but it still doesn't explain why the town is clean and empty on day 12.
Well, it almost made me not want to play the other two characters. Then I read some sneaky allusions about Klara's plot being substantially different, and I think she might address this issue. So... I guess I'm stuck with playing all three of them. Damn you, IPL
Absolutely, the ladies are both good looking and, more importantly, they feature in the plot just as heavily as men. I'm definitely not a die-hard gamer, but tell me what other game does this, cause I can't seem to think of any? In opposition to games such as Gothic III for instance, where in a complex world with kings, mercenaries, rebels, magicians and so on, the only women with distinct personality are... harem slaves. You have to lead them through the desert to be sold. Yay! (another interesting effect of playing Pathologic is realising how ridiculously childish some other games are, and feeling ashamed for ever liking them )
As you said, there is a lot of missing text in the English version compared to the original, I guess if we read everything we would've had a different opinion on this. Will we ever know?

I've started playing Burakh yesterday. This time, no tutorials at all. Let's see how this goes *gulp*

I agree, that was... weird.
1) During one of the final dialogs with Mark Bachelor supposes he is the Devil.
2) I have a version that Mark is a personification of one of the creators (just like Briullov portrayed himself among the characters of "The last day of Pompeii").
No, it's perfectly normal. The game is a mini-life. I doubt you wouldn't be distressed if something bad happened in real life and you realized that somebody else forced it to happen to you.
I think he was too unstable for that moment. Disappointed by Simon's inopportune death, anxious about Thanatica's possible breakup, confused by local beliefs and superstitions, face-to-face with an unknown disease... It became easy for the Cains to manipulate him
Good luck

Interesting I was just going to paraphrase an argument from an Inception related article in which it describes that the point of the ending of that movie was that it didn't matter. Dream/ movie/ game catharsis can be as real as catharsis in reality. In this case the revelation it's a game is, for one, something we know already and two, doesn't change our experience of the game and the feelings evoked by it

Time for a necro
I just finished the game with the Bachelor and got the 'good' ending with the sandbox at the polyhedron and the theatre/doll scene.

Sprite mentioned the following:


This theory is based solely on playing through and finishing the Bachelor scenario. Once I have played through the other two characters, my opinion will probably be different.

The kids near the sandbox in the Polyhedron scene on the last day mention that they have been playing for 10 days. The game they are playing is called 'epidemic'.

On day 1, there is no infections cause the children aren't playing. They are attending a funeral.
The next 10 days the game is on, and an infection travels through the various districts of the town.
On day 12, they are done playing. There is no more epidemic.

My theory is that the players real role in this game is another child at the sandbox, who controls the main character dolls which are the Bachelor, the Haruspicus and the Devotess within this infected town. To me this explains why sometimes the characters are talking to each other, but at other times they seem to be talking to you, the player (mostly on the first day and at the sandbox and theatre scenes of the last day). To me, this also explains the end scene, where all the dolls are on the stage. Standing on the stage, you are not in the Bachelor doll. You are overlooking them. A child in a theatre. The game is over. Time to put away the toys. Exit the doors and fade to black.

This is the conclusion I came to after thinking about the ending for a while and from my interpretation of the text for the Bachelor ending. A game within a game.

Great game Ice-pick Lodge. Two thumbs up!

Great observation, Crowhead! I hadn't remembered they said they played "epidemic" for 10 days. I guess that's one explanation for the Day 12 phenomenon, and the only one I've heard so far.

I did eventually finish the game with all three characters. It's a bit disappointing. Playing the others is great fun, and clarifies a lot of what's going on in the town, but brings almost nothing new to the meta aspect, which I was looking forward to. Or maybe I'm just dense and/or need to play it again, in Russian