There are some questions, that one should ask for himself and answer himself...
And there are some incomplete stories, that should not be completed by authors, but rather by readers/watchers/players...

That's my humle opinion about meaning of the sandbox scene...

P.S. Did you go to the theater at the last day?

Of course everyone's experience of this game is one's own. All the better to share our views, I say.

I completely agree with you about the need for the involvement of the player in the story. But in the context of today's game industry, such an overt statement cannot be anything less than critical, right?

Yes I did go to the theater. I found very interesting the many instances where the game was suddenly bypassing its own world, trying to hold actual dialogs with the player. Such a move is well established in most of the other narrative media, but it is refreshing, and relevant, to see it applied here: in games at least, the player/reader can respond.

Well... I'll try. But my limited knowledge of English is limiting me in my expressions)

I think that purpose of the sandbox scene and the scene in the theater is to reveal the main question of this game: will or fate? randomness or predetermination? And the game asks you: are you able to make decisions or you prefer not to argue with your fate?

Well, you forget that Pathologic, no matter how unique, excentric and exquisite, is still a video-game. Don't overload it with bothering meanings. Just love the enviroment and atmosphere and enjoy.

I disagree with you - Pathologic is the case where it's NOT only about the atmosphere.

Yeah, then I'm a snobish lowlife to let a video-game narrate me)))

What the hell did you mean just now?
You're not one of the people who deny, that books, cenima and now video games can lead on to a catharsis, when a person completly changes his points of view? If you are, that's just stupid. You're influenced by external stimulators all the time, whether you like it or not - you may fail to realise that, or wish to think that it you reach catharsis on your own, but that's either wrong or mereverbiage. Nothing personal.

Strange that you say that, since my interpretation of the sand-box scene (and what I take to be anticipations of it throughout the game) wasn't positing some new level of existential insight or some such. Rather, I see that scene as a recap or capsule of the critique happening in the larger game: a critique of games themselves for their "still a video-game" quality.

The very restraint that you show in assigning extra meaning to a "video game" is, I believe, the result of an habituation to the usual fare of mindless, popcorn shooters that market is flooding us with - and I cannot blame you for that. But I don't think such a restraint is fair to a narratively ambitious game like Pathologic.

I don't see how a game that is "unique, eccentric and exquisite" couldn't also be meaningful in some sense. To let go of the sand-box scene for a little bit, don't you think that all that jazz about the Polyhedron had some recurring political metaphors going?

The fanciest musical repertoire in the world wouldn't save you from the fact that, for all intent and purpose, the true soundtrack to your life is the omnipresent pop song on the radio...

I wanted to say that the influence of a game, any game good or bad, weak or complicated is limited by the very frame of the definition "game". Although I bear a tatoo of the Rune of Torment on my left shoulder it doesn't mean it's a tribute to the game Planescape:Torment, but rather a memento of the wonderful moments of my youth spent in the Multiverse setting together with friends. I want to say that I'll never reveiw any key experiences I've had so far because of a game or a book or a movie. The life bites too strong and true to put it along with "games". I can find fun or disgust or any other emotion in a game, but it will never make me think or listen, ever. Perhaps I'm shut, or stupid or whatever, because Pathologic is good, really, but it doesn't touch me, well not enough to make me think.

The definition of game... Well, life is a game. )
I guess everyone perception of the world is different - lt's not argue about things that we can't prove.

bratt_n:

You do realize, though, that there is a vast majority of people, me included, that shows no such restraint in trying to understand a given piece of media. And certainly this forum, by its very nature, is intended more for those willing to discuss than for the naysayers.

I bought Pathologic after reading the Rock Paper Shotgun article and have just recently finished it as Burakh. I managed to earn all the video cutscenes and the ingame sequence where you are free to leave.

I loved the game. I kept playing it even though the translation was at times very confusing, but I felt it was really worth it in the end. Great game!

The question I have is, will it ever be worthwhile playing through as the Devotress as people on the forum have claimed the translation is even worse? I'm really curious about what the Devotress adds to the overall story and concept. Could someone please perhaps describe what happens at the end if you finish the game as the Devotress? Or better yet, a savegame file?

The walkthrough does a pretty good job of describing how to complete the game as the Devotress but doesn't explain what happens at the end, except to allude to another conceptual layer?

Anyhow, once again, excellent work. I understand how difficult it is to translate appropriately to a different language and I wish you all the best for your next game. You have a guaranteed customer here.

Won't spoil... I'd only say, that Klara creates a miracle at the end. It's definetily worthwhile to play her scenario.

Hmmm fair enough. Is the translation fairly comprehensible or is it confusing to the point where the game is difficult to complete?

Like you, I hesitated in trying the devotress scenario in its current state. But then I just read the intro text below the character's picture after the first theater scene. While the Bachelor and the Haruspicus' text retain a certain charm amidst their strangeness, the devotress' one seems outright erroneous to me. If this first passage is any indication of the scenario's translation in general, I'd wait for an update.

Also, The LxR describes that particular translation as 'mangled' on RPS. I don't think he has any interest in exaggerating the truth, seeing as he's on the game team.

I got the impression that the whole thing with the Kains building the Inner Chamber, which contains two children who have created the town and the player characters for their games, who themselves are described as puppets by the masks, who then remind you that they're nothing but painted triangles, serves a purpose to firstly remind us that we're playing a game, and secondly to connect the game with the emotions and elements of it. This is a game... but the feelings are true. This is a story, but its implications are real. This is a falsehood, but it's the truth. A parable for real life humanity and strife.

Also the first thing I did after the conversation with the kids was climb a tree, jump the fence, and escape reality.


Games like Deus Ex and Half-life 2 inspire the same impulses in me. In fact, you could say they're downright pathologic.

There were actually multiple times through Pathologic that I was inspired to break the rules to 'escape' the overbearing despair and suffocation of what was going on in the story (Also starving to death and out of supplies). Around day 4 or 5 I started sleeping in the afternoon so I could stay up all night hunting muggers, and collecting every lockpick I could get from children, breaking into people's houses, beating them up, and robbing them. Despite what the Rock Paper Shotgun writeup so many of us English speaking gamers found Pathologic through suggests, there is plenty of fun to be had.

I'm gonna start my second playthrough tomorrow/tonight, and fully expect myself within a week to run into the aggravating dilemma of wanting to play the Devotress scenario against LxR's request not to.
Who knows when the translation fix for Pathologic will ever be done?
At least I have Gothic for a similar quality game to tide me.


Edit: Topic related question: Are there any endings beyond the four choices (The three heros plus "no decision") and the extra bit from seeing the man behind the curtain? They all leave me with the feeling that there's some ultimate conclusion that I've missed or big, huge aspects of the current ones simply lost in translation. The Bachelor's ending's music and direction make it seem like a bad ending, and no details given about the results of the Mistress and the possession of Polyhedron and new town, Devotress's seems to be shown as the best despite setting the town up for a repeat show AND a holy war. Haruspex's is the only one that played out happily as expected, though I was disappointed not to see the actual polyhedron get smashed.
The events that are suggested to occur in the Bachelor's ending seem like they would be the ultimate finale, the "good" ending you work towards, but the way the cutscene plays out...

Hey Mr. Lemming Great to hear you completed the game and enjoyed it.

As for the ending, I agree with your comments. As I said in an earlier post, I was initially disappointed (even angry!) about the ending, but I did see the important point it was making.
Thanks for the pics. Yes, I always try to get into areas that are meant to be inaccessible in games or that are just plain hard to get to (One of the best games for this is Thief, btw, which is full of areas you can only get to through sneaky/bizarre methods). You know the soldiers in Pathologic who are inside little 'guard posts'? I managed to jump up into one of those one time, and was unable to get back out
There's definitely a lot of fun to be had, particularly from the 'survival' elements. In fact, Pathologic really gave me a taste for games with survival aspects, and generally harsher gameplay conditions (I'm playing an excellent console RPG right now - Etrian Odyssey on the DS - Totally different from Pathologic, but with a strong feeling of struggle and survival).

I was unable to play as a 'bad' character in Pathologic, though. Sure, I'd take stuff from evacuated houses but I killed a lot of muggers and murderers, but I felt that I was Dankovsky and I wasn't going to go kill an innocent family just to steal their loaf of bread But it's great that the game gives you the ability to do that if you want.

Hmm... Actually, come to think of it, I did steal a few things from citizens' homes, but only when they weren't looking
Cool. Then we'll both be in the position of having completed the game with both the male characters. I have to admit, I really want to play through the game with Klara, to get the final piece of the puzzle.
That game sounds great. Definitely on my 'to play' list, along with about 50 other games
What do you mean by 'and the extra bit from seeing the man behind the curtain'? Are you talking about the extra ending piece where you see the three characters as button-eyed dolls on the stage? Anyway, I don't feel that much has really been lost in translation from the endings (at least, not for Dankovsky and Burakh). I felt that, when I completed the game the second time around, I did get a few other pieces of the puzzle. And I think Klara (if the text is understandable) will give us the rest. The LxR did say in an earlier post that Klara's ending is 'quite different.' Obviously, there are no different ending movies (as you can see if you look in the 'movies' folder ) but who knows what else we might see/understand at the end of her game?

In the end, the game still leaves me with about a million questions, but that's a big part of its appeal.

Good luck!

I roleplayed this a bit; I would only fight the men in the houses that objected to my thievery with fists. The game must consider pummeling them and stabbing them to be the same, but as far as I'm concerned they sat up again once I left, groaned, rubbed their lumps, and cursed my name.

I would definitely recommend Gothic. It's kinda buggy and hard to control (complaints people had about Pathologic), but also like Pathologic, it absolutely pulls no punches in how it treats you. Before you get a good weapon, armor, and make friends with the locals, you can fully expect to be torn apart if someone so much as sneezes at you, or if you accidentally wander into the attention of a wolf or orc. At the same time, it's got a lot of freedom- you can join one of three different groups of people, and once there divide your own progress through three different combat abilities and two separate guilds per camp (such as Guard, or Magician, or Rogue).
It's also got a couple real interesting innovations as far as CRPGs go- when you beat someone up in melee combat, they don't die when they reach 0 health- they fall over, stunned. You can choose to finish them off and murder them, or rob them and leave them alive to add insult to injury (a more tactful approach to ending combat; most people fully endorse fighting but shun outright murder), and there's only a set number of monsters and people in the world. Once something or someone is killed, it's gone forever. You can use spell scrolls and arrows and struggle to kill something too strong for you for later, and it'll stay dead- no respawning the next day. Your expenditure of resources has definite, lasting effect.

re: Gothic.

Thanks for the recommendation! Now I want to play it even more than I did before

Thread necromancy!

Personally I quite liked the whole meta-commentary of how it's just an illusion. It created this sense of unease while I playing and I felt like any moment the curtains would be drawn and I would be exposed on stage not being able to remember my lines. When I found out the 'truth' from the children in the Polyhedron, great choice making the player character small there, I was angry, confused but ultimately sort of liberated. I took it as, yeah maybe I am a puppet and it's all an illusion but those people believe in that illusion and I am now even more determined to help them.

Is there something special that needs to be done to see this? When I finished the game, after the FMV, it instantly went to the credits.

I believe you have to talk to the kids in the Polyhedron, *and* the characters in the Theater on the final day (You'll recieve a letter inviting you to come along), then you have to pick the 'right' choice at the meeting, depending on which character you're playing as. Though hopefully someone can give a less fuzzy explanation than this

could someone do a quick summarization of the major revelations in the devotress section, like the one mentioned in this thread about the last day?

I ask this because I doubt we'll be seeing a retranslation anytime soon for us english players. If you're afraid of spoiling people, put a big "DEVOTRESS SPOILERS" warning in bold before and after. thanks

Personally, I'm not buying the whole "Barley and Mushroom are the almighty Authorities and we are the toys" theory. The whole thing just seems so cheesy and way too convenient. The Inquisitor basically says the same thing to the Devotress, and she seems to know what's up There are other hints as well.

Of course, it is a bit pointless to argue what's true and what's false in this game with its set of "parallel truths", but this part really rings fake to me. Feels too much like a red herring, something the developers threw in to confuse the player even further I like to think that the town is the "real" reality.